I can’t help but notice some posts in Planet Ubuntu are clearly out of line with our Code of Conduct.
I hardly take offense to anything I see on the Internet anymore, however this is Planet Ubuntu, not « the Internet ». If you’re posting on your blog and you are syndicated here, it means you are an Ubuntu Member and as such you have agreed to read and go along the lines of what our Code of Conduct says. Digitally signing it and actually going to the technical steps required to make your blog part of Planet are voluntary actions taken as an Ubuntu Member, so please remember that when you post.
I don’t expect anyone to change their « WTF » and « STFU » attitude, just leave it outside this project. Setting up a category to carry only Planet Ubuntu posts may help. If this means you have to take a break from Ubuntu for a while, please do. Between « great contributor with « STFU » attitude » and « No contributor », I’d rather have « No contributor ». Surely we can work out something in the middle 🙂
Thank you so very much for pointing this out.
WTF?
Actually this is why many of us are not joining the ubuntu « community ». We’ve found it is nothing of the sort. I’ve found that the code of conduct is very often misapplied. Then it is used against people who have not even signed it, by virtue of us being users of Ubuntu.
A good example is language. The code of conduct does not state that we cannot use certain words. Yet, we are told that their usage is a violation of the code of conduct.
However, the CoC doesn’t address language. In fact I would say that the CoC in the case of a disagreement about word choice (the seven naught words…..please), actually applies to the one complaining rather than the one using. To wit and to quote:
« Be respectful. The Ubuntu community and its members treat one another with respect. Everyone can make a valuable contribution to Ubuntu. We may not always agree, but disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour and poor manners. We might all experience some frustration now and then, but we cannot allow that frustration to turn into a personal attack. It’s important to remember that a community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one. We expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when dealing with other contributors as well as with people outside the Ubuntu project, and with users of Ubuntu. »
Whereas I have seen far too often this to not be the case with someone that disagrees. They threaten and cajole, rather than speak reasonably.
So, I’d like to second Bill’s statement. Thanks for pointing this out, but doing so in a very mannerly fashion. If the rest of the folks that were putting themselves forth as Ubuntu leadership followed your polite example, maybe a lot of these issues would have disappeared by now. A project’s participants mirror its leadership, and when they are rude, should it surprise us that the community is rude?
Well, I see Stephan is determined to bring the subject up again, one way or another.
Basically, I think the CoC is foundational, but people use that foundational status as a bludgeon against things they don’t want to see, be it sexism, uncivilized language or sexual imagery. Some people have retroactively decided it means « would garner no protest from a billboard in the middle Kansas », when it’s really about elevating the creation and discussion of Ubuntu without eliminating it.
That said, I can’t see anything specifically out of the CoC, so I’m now worried it must be something _I_ wrote. Examples of what was written and what’s wrong would further bolster your case.
Well, to be clear, « Be respectful » to me really clearly includes « no cursing ». Referring to masturbation or genocides also rings a bell to me.
Although I am brining up the CoC because we have one, I think it is such common sense I am a bit surprised I even got comments on IRC asking what is wrong with WTF’ing here and there or A**holing now and then. Nothing really. But take it elsewhere. And I’ll gladly meet you there, but it won’t be under my @ubuntu.com hat.
And yes, to be clear, this is about Stephan’s posts, which I am filing a complaint about at the next Community Council.
Fabián, I totally agree with you!
Cute. If you do that and do not invite the author of the « don’t be a dick » meme to the meeting, I will very seriously consider calling it a violation of the collaboration clause.
And should the CC be reading this comment, I highly encourage them to seek outside advice if this becomes an agenda item. Any decision made will carry a precedent that should not be set lightly.
@Justin: I tried contacting him on IRC and on his blog, if history is any indication I don’t think that would have lead anywhere (he ignored my comments anyways).
Quoting:
Well, to be clear, Be respectful to me really clearly includes no cursing. Referring to masturbation or genocides also rings a bell to me.
—–
Well this is exactly the issue isn’t it? Where you come from using certain words (cursing) is disrespectful. Where I come from, friends curse at each other. Not only is it not a sign of disrespect, but rather just the opposite. We’re free individuals and you are right in our crowd enough that we are comfortable talking to you like we do to anyone else. If we aren’t « cursin » you, then it means you’re not a part of us.
Now to this issue of masturbation or genocide. This again is a matter of your opinion. If you feel speaking about masturbation is wrong, then don’t do it. I feel that suppression has increased senseless feelings of guilt. So I take offense that the subject of sexuality of any sort is taboo. It’s what leads to folks like me (not straight, monogamous), to have to listen to comments from certain in the Ubuntu community that we are not entitled to talk about our romantic partners because we’re not « proper ».
I’m always amazed at folks that want others to come off of the planets, or forums, or chat rooms, or any number of places because they find what they post offensive. I find lots of things offensive, and I just skim over the comments and look for the things I am interested in. I think, that others might grow to such an extent that they can do the same thing.
I actually agree and I would go a step further and not only make sure bloggers use correct and proper language AND that there are no off-topic posts about dating, bands, metal music (sorry Jono…) etc. While I’m sure this is interesting for many, I don’t consider it interesting for Planet Ubuntu.
@Lorenz: So make your own aggregator and stop reading planet ubuntu.
« » »
Planet Ubuntu
Planet Ubuntu is a window into the world, work and lives of Ubuntu developers and contributors.
« » »
The work and lives of Ubuntu developers / contributors includes the rock metal, dating, and bands. It is perfectly ontopic for planet ubuntu. If you don’t like it, why not create your own « planet ubuntu fork » and only read that?
Here is the software (written by jdub) to do it:
http://www.planetplanet.org/
+1 to Jeff Schroeder comment.
@Justin: Planet Ubuntu is a common place for different cultures to meet, not impose their own « it’s ok to curse here in my hometown, so we do it everywhere » attitude.
I am all for talking about masturbation, the genocide, WTFing each other etc. around a beer here in Montreal, city of many cultural influences and origins. Just NOT on Planet.
Congratulations sir,
You have motivated me to attend the Community Council meeting for no other purpose to watch the debate between you and Stephan Hermann. While yes I do get annoyed by the ancillary discussions of things that are only related to Ubuntu in the fact that the poster is both an Ubuntu member and involved in the other topic I skip over those posts that I don’t care about.
I read the Planet Ubuntu to know what the people behind the OS that I use day in and day out are up to. From on topic revelations about interesting issues being found in the OS, to new software (and my favorite new software package, terminator), to the other topics that people are working on. This is also the reason why I subscribed to the Gentoo Universe. I was not receiving the full picture of my what my favored developers were working on and how I might give incentives them.
@ Jeff Schroeder:
I didn’t know that definition. Keeping it in mind, posts about personal life are not out of place and I apologize for my hasty comment. I like Planet Ubuntu a lot, I skip those posts I don’t want to read, but I just felt continous posts about metal music and personal life stories were out of place. If they are included by definition, fine with me 🙂
Seriously dude? Are you seriously trying to say that he cant write whatever he wants to on his blog? Geez. Thats pretty (a) stupid and (b) stupid. If you don’t like what he writes, then don’t read it. Pure and simple.
I am a Christian. I go to church every week, don’t cuss, avoid porn, etc. I don’t see any problem in what he writes insofar because, quite frankly, I am not his parent/boss/significant other. If I don’t like what he writes, I move on. Simple as that. Who appointed you to be the moral compass of the community? He wrote something that was actually right on the money. You did what many people in my faith do wrong, you decided that what he writes is your business. You cannot have free expression without hearing something you might not like. Thats the world that we live in man. Simple as that. I live my life my way, you live your life your way, and he will live his life his way. In the end, its not up to you, me, or anyone else to tell him what he can or cannot do. It is as simple as that.
To be honest, if you don’t like what he writes then you should move on. Fork Ubuntu and make your own community based around the « no cussing » no unapproved speech mindset and soon you will realize that your community will be very small.
I don’t want to start a flame war or anything like that. I just think that your attempt to censor him is misguided and wrong. You are the one being disruptive to the community. Yes, some people do find cursing offensive. I find it offensive to me. However, I only control what I SAY and no one else. Its ridiclous and quite honestly arrogant to expect that everyone adheres to your morals. What if mine were to say nothing negative about Ubuntu? Or Linux? What if I tried to impose that on you? How would you feel then? The reason the CoC works is because, it doesn’t set a certain ruleset on people other than « play nice ». Now, if your concept of play only includes sliding down the slide does that mean that the rest of the playground (Swingsets, Jungle-gyms, etc) is torn up because you don’t like swinging on the swings? It would be ridiculous to expect someone to only slide down the slide because that is what you find as acceptable.
What you really want is everyone to be just like you. Well, if everyone was like you then the whole concept of community flies out the window. After all, its the mix of different people that makes Ubuntu what it is. Its a creative group of people, from different walks of life, collaborating to make one heck of an operating system.
Police yourself. Be an example to others. Play nice. Don’t expect everyone to be you.
DIggs,
Dude Thank you very much. I’m a pagan and one thing I tire of from the pagan « community » is their constant whining about christians. The same applies to christians who want to control pagans. Or ubuntucians that want to control everyone. I’ve been to a lot of churches and I’ve yet to see as much attempts at controlling everyone…EVERYONE that does not think a particular way as since I’ve had the great misfortune of experience the Ubuntu elites.
You said it all and in a mouthful. Thanks again.
Note: Somehow despite these ridiculous controls that they try to impose on us, the software still comes out mostly pretty good. Imagine how much better it would be if it were just the software maam…and none of the whining?